Here you can address missing features and enhancement recommendations for the app. The Jeppesen development team will constantly review this discussion to understand your needs.

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Dear Teo, dear Tobias,

we care for the voice of our customers, also the critical ones. This thread helps us a lot to define and prioritize our development backlog so thank you for your comments. We also have a few ideas that are not on this list.

Regarding your question, why we do not post out roadmap for the next two years on a webpage: of course we appreciate your participation in the future of our products, and we want to make you happy. On the other hand, a product and feature roadmap is always competitive information and companies keep it secret. We understand that this sometimes creates frustration.

Please let me point out a big value I think our product still has on the market. We guarantee for our navigation data. We can, because we constantly invest in data verification and validation at Jeppesen. We do not need a dislaimer "not for navigation" because our app is allowed to be used for navigation without paper replacement.

Which does not mean we stopped investing in our FliteDeck VFR. Our application updates shortly after a major iOS release. This year we are working on our coverage: Extension to Scandinavia, improved ED-R 150 handling and a few other projects. In 2017, we will focus on your feature wishlist - which also means that our app will remain as is this year.

Question for our roadmap: When you plan your routes - how do you do it now?

Many thanks and always safe flights

Mark

Mark,

I appreciate your reply and I know that it can be frustrating for both customers and developers when pressure raises from both parts because of different expectations/plans.

As of now, I love your product for the accuracy/reliability/readability of the charts. This is your crown jewel. 

To go back to your question: I planned with SD checking along the route the accuracy of the charts using the one provided by you as reference (and I must admit there were a couple of issues in the one provided by SD - such as missing military corridor that were properly reported in yours). My log was generated and printed with SD (including NAV/COMM frequencies along the routes, right city names, instead of WP1 and a proper altitude selection - you have a very complex way of permitting altitude selection in the FD VFR)

In flight I used SD on one iPad and your app in the other. No need to say that SD was making my life easier. Whatever FIS was asking for an estimate to whatever point along the route, the answer was immediate with SD (which is updating the ETAs on the current flight path) and was requiring some math and time check with yours. Vertical profile within SD, while in flight, is also very very useful (especially living in a Mountainous country). 

Finally for fun: when arrived at the airport of landing, I thought I could get some revenge on SD using your app. I needed to have access to the ATIS frequency. I knew it was reported in the SD flightlog (they provide a list of most relevant frequencies along your flight path). But I though: it must be much quicker with FD VFR: zoom-in enough and you'll get the ATIS frequency - I thought/hoped . Nooope... it took me 3 minutes, zooming-in.. zooming-out.. and no ATIS frequency. I had to open the airport information to have the frequency..

Again, SD log was providing that info much much quicker and efficiently.

Charts are great and I think nobody is discussing this (although as mentioned you could provide ATIS information there as well). And I love to hear that you are extending the coverage. But, hopefully in 2017, you'll take some of the suggestions in these posts to revive significantly the navigational capabilities of the app.

Alternatively, why not just sell the overall charts as buy-in products for other navigational apps (I would love to buy them in SD (just as an example), if this would be an option). Strategically, this would mean that Jeppesen would be focusing on something that knows how to do better than others: charts. While leaving, the design and implementation of navigational apps to other parties. Maybe provocative.. but not impossible to imagine..

Many thanks for your time,

Teo



Dear Mark,


thanks for your posting and pointing out one of the big advantages of JMFD. First of all let me repeat my opinion already written on this forum that I am as well frustrated about Jepps' information policy. Nevetheless I am greatful for your very clear statement about guaranteeing legal charts, for me one of the main points to use your app (but not the only one, see also my previous postings).


On the SkyDemon forum, there has been two years ago a posting concerning the legal use of a flying app, where user RobinHood posted some enlightening information with respect to the "official" German opinion about the legal use of navigation apps. For that posting, look here.


Quote:
"i asked this question [about the legal use of nav apps] to the german LBA on the AERO fair [Two years ago].
They replied (more or less) that the user has to assure that program and battery works. If the software/program provider disclaims that the software is not intended to be the only source for planning, it's not legal. The data is not needed to be certified, but the software/program provider. Every VALID chart can be used."
Unquote.


I am not a user of SkyDemon, but I want to fly in a legal way. Thus, if you use SD and in case of SD has such a disclaimer in their app, you need an additional, "legal" way for navigation. As a consequence, I decided to stick with JMFD (and all of its drawbacks), using two iPads and nothing else, in particular no paper charts. Although I as well regret the Jepp policy of not publishing a reliable roadmap for urgent features, I appreciate their expertise in providing us with legal maps.


However, my concern with respect to that app goes into another direction: VFR support might not be enough of a business to maintain the app on a long term. As a result, I share the opinion of many others here that we need reliable forecasts about new features. What about another "guarantee" with respect to the long-term availability? We saw in the past how fast the scenario can change when Jepp cancelled their widely used VFR paper charts altogether.


Regards,
Clem

Hello Teo,

thank you for your kind feedback and information about your flight planning needs.

Your strategic suggestions make sense, unfortunately I cannot comment them openly. There are a lot of good ideas on the market and we should leverage them.

Br

Mark

Teodoro Laino said:

Mark,

I appreciate your reply and I know that it can be frustrating for both customers and developers when pressure raises from both parts because of different expectations/plans.

As of now, I love your product for the accuracy/reliability/readability of the charts. This is your crown jewel. 

To go back to your question: I planned with SD checking along the route the accuracy of the charts using the one provided by you as reference (and I must admit there were a couple of issues in the one provided by SD - such as missing military corridor that were properly reported in yours). My log was generated and printed with SD (including NAV/COMM frequencies along the routes, right city names, instead of WP1 and a proper altitude selection - you have a very complex way of permitting altitude selection in the FD VFR)

In flight I used SD on one iPad and your app in the other. No need to say that SD was making my life easier. Whatever FIS was asking for an estimate to whatever point along the route, the answer was immediate with SD (which is updating the ETAs on the current flight path) and was requiring some math and time check with yours. Vertical profile within SD, while in flight, is also very very useful (especially living in a Mountainous country). 

Finally for fun: when arrived at the airport of landing, I thought I could get some revenge on SD using your app. I needed to have access to the ATIS frequency. I knew it was reported in the SD flightlog (they provide a list of most relevant frequencies along your flight path). But I though: it must be much quicker with FD VFR: zoom-in enough and you'll get the ATIS frequency - I thought/hoped . Nooope... it took me 3 minutes, zooming-in.. zooming-out.. and no ATIS frequency. I had to open the airport information to have the frequency..

Again, SD log was providing that info much much quicker and efficiently.

Charts are great and I think nobody is discussing this (although as mentioned you could provide ATIS information there as well). And I love to hear that you are extending the coverage. But, hopefully in 2017, you'll take some of the suggestions in these posts to revive significantly the navigational capabilities of the app.

Alternatively, why not just sell the overall charts as buy-in products for other navigational apps (I would love to buy them in SD (just as an example), if this would be an option). Strategically, this would mean that Jeppesen would be focusing on something that knows how to do better than others: charts. While leaving, the design and implementation of navigational apps to other parties. Maybe provocative.. but not impossible to imagine..

Many thanks for your time,

Teo

Dear Clem,

thank you for your response.

I attached the legal expert opinion of Prof. Giemulla. It states that the pilot in command is responsible for the safe operation of the aircraft, which includes navigation. Also, the Jeppsen FD VFR is specifically suitable to support safe navigation due to its high charting standard, comparable to Jeppesen paper charts.

Regarding the long term availability of our application. Of course anything can happen, but we will fulfill our contracts (or subscriptions). Moreover, there is no reason to reduce the support at the app in sight. We still invest in FD VFR, even though rather in coverage extension than features this year. Same applies to Jeppview VFR products.

Best regards

Mark


Clem Schmidt said:



Dear Mark,


thanks for your posting and pointing out one of the big advantages of JMFD. First of all let me repeat my opinion already written on this forum that I am as well frustrated about Jepps' information policy. Nevetheless I am greatful for your very clear statement about guaranteeing legal charts, for me one of the main points to use your app (but not the only one, see also my previous postings).


On the SkyDemon forum, there has been two years ago a posting concerning the legal use of a flying app, where user RobinHood posted some enlightening information with respect to the "official" German opinion about the legal use of navigation apps. For that posting, look here.


Quote:
"i asked this question [about the legal use of nav apps] to the german LBA on the AERO fair [Two years ago].
They replied (more or less) that the user has to assure that program and battery works. If the software/program provider disclaims that the software is not intended to be the only source for planning, it's not legal. The data is not needed to be certified, but the software/program provider. Every VALID chart can be used."
Unquote.


I am not a user of SkyDemon, but I want to fly in a legal way. Thus, if you use SD and in case of SD has such a disclaimer in their app, you need an additional, "legal" way for navigation. As a consequence, I decided to stick with JMFD (and all of its drawbacks), using two iPads and nothing else, in particular no paper charts. Although I as well regret the Jepp policy of not publishing a reliable roadmap for urgent features, I appreciate their expertise in providing us with legal maps.


However, my concern with respect to that app goes into another direction: VFR support might not be enough of a business to maintain the app on a long term. As a result, I share the opinion of many others here that we need reliable forecasts about new features. What about another "guarantee" with respect to the long-term availability? We saw in the past how fast the scenario can change when Jepp cancelled their widely used VFR paper charts altogether.


Regards,
Clem

Attachments:

Dear Mark,

thanks for replying quickly, and for sharing your attached legal expertise! It is calming to read the experts' opinion that the measures

  • Redundancy
  • Completeness and actuality of information (no "disclaimer")
  • Permanent power supply

are sufficient for legal navigation with JMFD or any other app fulfilling these prerequisites.

Thanks also for your commitment to the long-term availability of the app.

Regards,

Clem

Mark Neumann said:

Dear Clem,

thank you for your response.

I attached the legal expert opinion of Prof. Giemulla. It states that the pilot in command is responsible for the safe operation of the aircraft, which includes navigation. Also, the Jeppsen FD VFR is specifically suitable to support safe navigation due to its high charting standard, comparable to Jeppesen paper charts.

Regarding the long term availability of our application. Of course anything can happen, but we will fulfill our contracts (or subscriptions). Moreover, there is no reason to reduce the support at the app in sight. We still invest in FD VFR, even though rather in coverage extension than features this year. Same applies to Jeppview VFR products.

Best regards

Mark


Clem Schmidt said:



Dear Mark,


thanks for your posting and pointing out one of the big advantages of JMFD. First of all let me repeat my opinion already written on this forum that I am as well frustrated about Jepps' information policy. Nevetheless I am greatful for your very clear statement about guaranteeing legal charts, for me one of the main points to use your app (but not the only one, see also my previous postings).


On the SkyDemon forum, there has been two years ago a posting concerning the legal use of a flying app, where user RobinHood posted some enlightening information with respect to the "official" German opinion about the legal use of navigation apps. For that posting, look here.


Quote:
"i asked this question [about the legal use of nav apps] to the german LBA on the AERO fair [Two years ago].
They replied (more or less) that the user has to assure that program and battery works. If the software/program provider disclaims that the software is not intended to be the only source for planning, it's not legal. The data is not needed to be certified, but the software/program provider. Every VALID chart can be used."
Unquote.


I am not a user of SkyDemon, but I want to fly in a legal way. Thus, if you use SD and in case of SD has such a disclaimer in their app, you need an additional, "legal" way for navigation. As a consequence, I decided to stick with JMFD (and all of its drawbacks), using two iPads and nothing else, in particular no paper charts. Although I as well regret the Jepp policy of not publishing a reliable roadmap for urgent features, I appreciate their expertise in providing us with legal maps.


However, my concern with respect to that app goes into another direction: VFR support might not be enough of a business to maintain the app on a long term. As a result, I share the opinion of many others here that we need reliable forecasts about new features. What about another "guarantee" with respect to the long-term availability? We saw in the past how fast the scenario can change when Jepp cancelled their widely used VFR paper charts altogether.


Regards,
Clem

Dear all,

I would like to add my two cents to the now apparently revived discussion about the future of JVFRMFD.  Don't get me wrong, I just tried to pay my invoice for the coming year (also, by the way, a certainly optimizable procedure).  So I love and support the app and the maps quality and find the app good enough to pay for it another year.

But I wanted to say: while we are discussing, others are simply switching to the concurrent product and couldn't care less to post and discuss here.  In my (admittedly small) circle of pilot acquaintances I have already three that were originally Jeppesen VFR enthusiasts when the App came on the market and now simply switched to SkyDemon.  With no posting or forum discussions!  Personally I have recently been flying with one of these friends, he using SD and me JVFR.  Jeppesen is clearly losing terrain, I am sorry to say that. 

I sincerely hope to be proven wrong, I hope Jeppesen will not end up selling digital maps and services to another software company.  That would be a pity.  But they have to wake up.  Unless they want to end like Nokia or Kodak. The market does not wait and has no pity. 

Just my two cents, as I said.

Best regards and happy landings everyone!

Claudio

... what I don't get is: Jeppesen has FliteDeck for IR - which has all those features. Why not integrate the VFR-Cards they currently already have in the other app?

The other app even works together with RocketRoute....

Really. I don't get it.

And, while we are discussing exporting cards one more feature is badly missing: Why are the legs on the routing without Heading Information? Have a look at airnav - they do have a really good solution there...

Again: Why reinvent the wheel? And why, for gods sake, try to make it less round?

Other apps work on iPhone, Android and iPad. With the jeppesen App I have to carry two iPads with me - and have no chance of synchronizing the routes between them...

Really: l don't get who is setting the priorities at Jeppesen... If it is a pilot he has stopped flying VFR for a long time.

Tobias

Hi there,

To be brutally honest: Nobody cares about what navigation tool you use as long as you don't fly into a CTR or TMA or into another controlled airspace without clearance. Nobody.

And if you fly there you don't get bonus-points for using Jeppesen FliteDeck VFR.

Things that are missing (badly):

- You can't synchronize between devices

- Your only device is an iPad

- You have to enter the routes manually on both devices

- If you need to do an enroute change your second device is obsolete for that leg

- You have no heading indicators on the routing legs displayed

All this adds workload in the air. In addition, I experienced quite bad lags today flying a PA28/181 using the app. two seconds are a lot in the air. And it's on an iPad Air 2... so... you won't really get much faster devices (except the pro... but that's another story)

Don't get me wrong, I like the app very much. There are very good things in it. But, still, how hard can it be to make the routes syncable - and be it using mail? How hard can it be to add the Heading-Informations on the line?

They have achieved much more difficult tasks (i.e. enroute weather forecasts)... 

Why I don't get it? I'm a Solution- / Software Architect / Engineer. That's why.

It really reminds me of some projects I had to finish for others because the roadmap was totally pointless.

Regards

Tobias

EDIT: And, to be honest: We are talking / discussing about features "announced" in 2013. It really feels bad right now.


Mark Neumann said:

Dear Clem,

thank you for your response.

I attached the legal expert opinion of Prof. Giemulla. It states that the pilot in command is responsible for the safe operation of the aircraft, which includes navigation. Also, the Jeppsen FD VFR is specifically suitable to support safe navigation due to its high charting standard, comparable to Jeppesen paper charts.

Regarding the long term availability of our application. Of course anything can happen, but we will fulfill our contracts (or subscriptions). Moreover, there is no reason to reduce the support at the app in sight. We still invest in FD VFR, even though rather in coverage extension than features this year. Same applies to Jeppview VFR products.

Best regards

Mark


Clem Schmidt said:



Dear Mark,


thanks for your posting and pointing out one of the big advantages of JMFD. First of all let me repeat my opinion already written on this forum that I am as well frustrated about Jepps' information policy. Nevetheless I am greatful for your very clear statement about guaranteeing legal charts, for me one of the main points to use your app (but not the only one, see also my previous postings).


On the SkyDemon forum, there has been two years ago a posting concerning the legal use of a flying app, where user RobinHood posted some enlightening information with respect to the "official" German opinion about the legal use of navigation apps. For that posting, look here.


Quote:
"i asked this question [about the legal use of nav apps] to the german LBA on the AERO fair [Two years ago].
They replied (more or less) that the user has to assure that program and battery works. If the software/program provider disclaims that the software is not intended to be the only source for planning, it's not legal. The data is not needed to be certified, but the software/program provider. Every VALID chart can be used."
Unquote.


I am not a user of SkyDemon, but I want to fly in a legal way. Thus, if you use SD and in case of SD has such a disclaimer in their app, you need an additional, "legal" way for navigation. As a consequence, I decided to stick with JMFD (and all of its drawbacks), using two iPads and nothing else, in particular no paper charts. Although I as well regret the Jepp policy of not publishing a reliable roadmap for urgent features, I appreciate their expertise in providing us with legal maps.


However, my concern with respect to that app goes into another direction: VFR support might not be enough of a business to maintain the app on a long term. As a result, I share the opinion of many others here that we need reliable forecasts about new features. What about another "guarantee" with respect to the long-term availability? We saw in the past how fast the scenario can change when Jepp cancelled their widely used VFR paper charts altogether.


Regards,
Clem

Hello Tobias,

In 2016, we do work on our coverage but FD VFR will mostly remain as is for the next 6 Months.

Your comments help us a lot prioritizing our backlog for the work we plan on the app for next year. I see you are a software development expert as well. Your involvement is welcome, if you want we can have a call or a meeting discussing the points.

Best regards

Mark



Tobias Goeller said:

... what I don't get is: Jeppesen has FliteDeck for IR - which has all those features. Why not integrate the VFR-Cards they currently already have in the other app?

The other app even works together with RocketRoute....

Really. I don't get it.

And, while we are discussing exporting cards one more feature is badly missing: Why are the legs on the routing without Heading Information? Have a look at airnav - they do have a really good solution there...

Again: Why reinvent the wheel? And why, for gods sake, try to make it less round?

Other apps work on iPhone, Android and iPad. With the jeppesen App I have to carry two iPads with me - and have no chance of synchronizing the routes between them...

Really: l don't get who is setting the priorities at Jeppesen... If it is a pilot he has stopped flying VFR for a long time.

Tobias

Mark,

That's good news. I will keep an eye on the app and reconsider next year in july what I will do next. If it's still in its current state I might not renew it. If I see an improvement (i.e. the crucial features coming in) I will stick with it.

I would pity not renewing it because - as I pointed out several times - the data really is superb.

I hope Jeppesen creates an app that pays the data justice.

Tobias

Mark Neumann said:

Hello Tobias,

In 2016, we do work on our coverage but FD VFR will mostly remain as is for the next 6 Months.

Your comments help us a lot prioritizing our backlog for the work we plan on the app for next year. I see you are a software development expert as well. Your involvement is welcome, if you want we can have a call or a meeting discussing the points.

Best regards

Mark



Tobias Goeller said:

... what I don't get is: Jeppesen has FliteDeck for IR - which has all those features. Why not integrate the VFR-Cards they currently already have in the other app?

The other app even works together with RocketRoute....

Really. I don't get it.

And, while we are discussing exporting cards one more feature is badly missing: Why are the legs on the routing without Heading Information? Have a look at airnav - they do have a really good solution there...

Again: Why reinvent the wheel? And why, for gods sake, try to make it less round?

Other apps work on iPhone, Android and iPad. With the jeppesen App I have to carry two iPads with me - and have no chance of synchronizing the routes between them...

Really: l don't get who is setting the priorities at Jeppesen... If it is a pilot he has stopped flying VFR for a long time.

Tobias

Admitted: There are many ways to fly in an non-legal way, e.g. without a valid medical. Who cares if you are not being controlled??? This argument is nonsense.

Regards,

Clem

Tobias Goeller said:

Hi there,

To be brutally honest: Nobody cares about what navigation tool you use as long as you don't fly into a CTR or TMA or into another controlled airspace without clearance. Nobody.

And if you fly there you don't get bonus-points for using Jeppesen FliteDeck VFR.

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